Josh Elledge 2:11
Yeah, in the beginning, right. There’s a lot of outreach that you have to do to get the momentum going. Here’s what I want to let people know, in terms of like, you know, if they’re kind of thinking about their long term business model. It gets easier. In fact, it gets so ridiculously easy. We’ll talk about this from two different directions, right? Because you talked about being a guest and then being the host, right?
Josh Elledge 2:38
So, um, as a guest, we’ll talk about that, because that’s pretty quick – is that, in the beginning – yes. What my recommendation is, is that you aim for small shows, people that are at your level of authority or smaller, okay. And, there’s so many reasons why I think that that’s just good business practice. Number one is that bigger shows, they get hit, well they get hit up a lot. I get about 15 inquiries every single week, for the Thoughtful Entrepreneur, and I have a pretty tight requirement in order to be a guest.
Josh Elledge 3:15
But that said, when you aim for smaller shows, number one, is you’re going to get practice. I know you know this, Ashley. Every podcaster will tell you this – your first 10, 20, 30 shows – they’re gonna be, eh. They’re gonna be good, not great. And you will get so much better as you go. So what I don’t want you to do, is I don’t want you to pitch a big, bigger show. And let’s say you do get placed, right? Number one is just like in media, right? Because my background is in media consulting and training and PR. And so people would come and say, “Hey, can you get me on the Today Show?” And the answer is like, yeah, it’s gonna take us a year or two. But if you’re really committed to it, we can aim for that.
Josh Elledge 4:05
And so they’ll say, “Hey wait a minute, a year or two? No, I want them to book me next week.” Like, yeah, well, tell me about all the media that you’ve done already. They’re like, “None.” And, I’m like, well, there you go. So you have to honor the path. Right? So you either have to, you have to earn your stripes somewhere, right? So if you want to be a guest on a podcast, be prepared to share. When you’re presenting yourself as a guest to be a guest on a podcast, be prepared to share: Here’s where I’ve been before. Here were the results. Here’s how I promoted that episode very heavily to my own audience, and we could create a great win-win together. And here is what is…
Josh Elledge 4:43
Anytime I pitch the media, it’s always about, here’s what’s in it for you. Nothing to do with what’s in it for me. And that’s a really good philosophy when you’re reaching out and you want that visibility. So, yeah, so that’s it. So, start small, please, please, please, please, start small. And then my recommendation is you can either work with agencies, you can work with an expert, you know, you can work with someone that knows the ropes a little bit. They can certainly speed up the process. But I think really, it is just about authentic one-to-one communication.
Josh Elledge 5:18
Resist the urge to send out email blasts to podcasters. Please do not do that. We know what you’re doing. We don’t like it. So I’ll just speak on behalf of other podcasts. Maybe other ones, maybe some podcasters do like it. I don’t! My recommendation would be spend more time with fewer people. Spend quality, authentic time in your communication. It’s absolutely worth it. You’ll get way more bang for the buck, rather than just trying to blast everybody. So ignore any guru out there that tells you to do that. Don’t do that.
Ashley 5:50
So basically, it sounds like what you’re saying is before you can go after the big fish, you need to up your influence?
Josh Elledge 5:55
Yeah, that helps! That helps. So here’s the thing, right – is that any podcaster worth a grain of salt, is going to check you out a little bit, before they book you. Now, not everybody does some, you know, some are kind of more open – it’s like open mic night. You know, to be a guest on their show, and that’s fine. But most podcasters, they’re going to check you out. So knowing that, right? What do you want them to see? So in marketing today, in sales today, I can tell you this, having studied and led on consumer behavior since 2007, is that consumers today are pretty darn skeptical.
Josh Elledge 5:56
Consumers are empowered, and everybody’s a consumer that includes podcast hosts, right or other media. They’re going to do a quick Google search on you. They’re going to check out your LinkedIn. They’re going to check out your website and see if you have a media page, right? If you don’t have these things, I’m not saying it’s going to, you know, prevent you from anything, but why not? Right? Because they’re going to look for it. So what I like to do is I like to head them off at the past and say, “Oh, hey, you’re looking for Josh Elledge, let me show you what I would like to show you.” So I’m gonna lead with my authority.
Josh Elledge 7:12
So authority is one of the key three things that you need today to truly succeed in business – is what your perceived authority is online. And everywhere that you know, people might your name might come up, control that narrative, control that message. So podcasts, being a guest on a podcast is a great way to fill up Google with lots of great stuff about you, right? And then what you want to do is you make sure you make it ridiculously easy for Google to find all those podcasts, you want to make it ridiculously easy for future podcasters to find out where you’ve appeared on.
Josh Elledge 7:12
So when you go to UpMyInfluence.com, and you hover over about, you’re going to see one tab that says 200 Plus or 300 Plus podcasts that I’ve appeared on. I indexed all of them, right? And I also have a separate media page that shows all my traditional media placements – everything like – I want to make it brain dead easy for people. So to someone who’s listening to us, and you want to just go copy what I do, go for it. Go see what I do, because I can tell you, it works.
Josh Elledge 8:21
And then to answer your question, Ashley – In the beginning, yes, you are going to have to push really, really hard both as a guest, and as a host. You’ve got to just wear out the shoe a little, and you’ve got to do the manual work. I hate to tell you [this]. Gurus who want to sell you their stuff will tell you, you know that there’s no work involved. And you know, they’re the ones making a lot of money there. It’s just going to take a little bit of effort. But that said, if you’ll do the work for about 3, 4, 5, 6 months, you will start to develop a lot of organic activity. A lot of inbound activity where you just don’t have to work that hard.
Josh Elledge 8:59
So you put in the work you put in the work now, and then you get the results later. I like that because I mean even if you wanted to do like – If you did want to get on the Today Show, if for some reason – for some miraculous chance you were booked – you wouldn’t be ready, and you could totally bomb and ruin it. And so I like what you said about the idea of practicing and getting good at it. Honing in your craft, honing in your message, and honing in who it is you’re talking to. So that when you do finally get the Today Show answering your call, you know what to say and what to do and you don’t look like a bumbling idiot.
Josh Elledge 9:30
That’s right. Can I share a dirty little secret too? And that is.
Ashley 9:34
YES!
Josh Elledge 9:34
No, no, no, keep your dirty little secrets, Josh. Okay, so here’s the thing, right? Um, and I can tell you this, in hindsight. Having been on, and I’ve been to some big shows. And I’ve had some big media placements. I can tell you that the typical podcast guest experience from a “Whoa Boy! They’re gonna promote me to their audience! I’m gonna make all this money!” Right?